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Post by Mercia(andreas) on Mar 8, 2017 1:51:25 GMT
Version 1&3, unless the regent is in the castle, it would fall to the castle commander to evaluate if driving off the investment is a sound move. That could help mitigate the potential slow crawl of those.
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Post by NSE (Lydia of Caerleon) on Mar 8, 2017 3:06:59 GMT
Out of curiosity, can you send more units to invest the castle than is required to improve chance of blocking/defeating a sortie?
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Post by Caerleon (Tristan) on Mar 8, 2017 3:20:06 GMT
I don't see why not.
Of course you need to balance what you send to invest the castle with what you need to defeat the army.
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Post by X-Nemeth on Mar 8, 2017 6:58:02 GMT
The sortie should at least be the 5-2 table as they attack before a proper siege can be set up. Are there any modifiers from commander or magic to the limited field combat, the siege? Do forts add garrison space to the cadtle fight?
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Post by X-Nemeth on Mar 8, 2017 7:07:26 GMT
What if enough units is killed in the sortie that there are not enough left for the investment?
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Post by Caerleon (Tristan) on Mar 8, 2017 7:25:27 GMT
The sortie should at least be the 5-2 table as they attack before a proper siege can be set up. Are there any modifiers from commander or magic to the limited field combat, the siege? Do forts add garrison space to the cadtle fight? The garrison has to attack by moving out of the castle, meaning that they would be approaching the battlefield piece by piece, remember the investing force in this scenario doesn't need to form a full siege, just stop them from providing support. Realistically the investing force just needs to get close enough to the castle that they can intercept wagons and troops leaving and not much further. What if enough units is killed in the sortie that there are not enough left for the investment? I'd assume the investment fails.
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Post by Linde (x-GM) on Mar 8, 2017 7:45:12 GMT
B3 castle bonus neutralized
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Post by Linde (x-GM) on Mar 8, 2017 7:47:05 GMT
Out of curiosity, can you send more units to invest the castle than is required to improve chance of blocking/defeating a sortie?Yes
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Post by Linde (x-GM) on Mar 8, 2017 7:48:47 GMT
What if enough units is killed in the sortie that there are not enough left for the investment?Then the castle isn't invested
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Post by Linde (x-GM) on Mar 8, 2017 7:50:51 GMT
The sortie should at least be the 5-2 table as they attack before a proper siege can be set up. Are there any modifiers from commander or magic to the limited field combat, the siege? Do forts add garrison space to the cadtle fight? Check the rules section of the forum as you are referring to raw rather than our rules And no. Forts don't help in this regard
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Post by X-Nemeth on Mar 9, 2017 13:32:39 GMT
Wait, the castle are the defenders, how come they lose the draw (on top of having the worse table)?
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Post by Alined on Mar 9, 2017 13:48:36 GMT
In a sortie, the investing troops are the defenders and the castle troops are the attackers. A sortie is a type of attack, specifically the type where someone leaves their protected zone to attack into enemy-held territory.
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Post by Linde (x-GM) on Mar 9, 2017 14:04:07 GMT
Wait, the castle are the defenders, how come they lose the draw (on top of having the worse table)? Because status quo is that the castle is invested. In an attempt to stop that and be allowed to grant bonus to the field combat, the troops in the castle can rally an attack on the forces outside. If they win, the castle is not invested. In a tie, they loose because they are the attackers in this context. If they loose, and enough enemy troops are left to invest the castle, then it is invested.
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Post by Mercia(andreas) on Mar 9, 2017 14:10:53 GMT
It just means that you basicly need to use guards as a garrison to break a militia or Light infantry investment...
Unless the defenders have the castle field bonus for lifting the investment.
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Post by X-Nemeth on Mar 14, 2017 20:57:57 GMT
Castle vs units: You could get 2 traited units for the cost of a castle. The units arrive next turn (or rushed to next wm). It takes 4 turns to hurry a castle, 7 turns normal build speed to build a castle. Castles cant move. They are very predictable! Castles do not grant your armies more HP. Hence they do not soak dmg, or protect your commanders. Castles do no dmg on their own. Castles do not heal on their own, you are forced to pay to repair them. Castles increase cost by additive 50%/100% for lvl 1-3 provinces, rough terrain, low mount/lvl 0 provinces, forbidden terrain. Castles are cheaper to maintain than units.
Castles are just as vulnerable to espionage/agitate actions as troops. Castles are vulnerable to realm magic, but the magic is expensive (100 RP pr castle lvl - five turns worth, or the same it took to build it) Castles do not protect against raids on GP, hence you can force defenders to move out of the province and fight
Suggestions: Any of the below can go with each other in the new rules.
Suggestion A: Keep old castle, but remove the dice modifier. Reason: There are so many ways to get the dice modifiers, that it is superfluous to have it on the castle. The reduced morale and dmg when you fight in a province with you castle makes sense, seeing as your units have a safe base of operations to rally around and fall back to
Suggestion B: Keep the new rules (4 units to neutralize a full lvl 1 castle, possibility of sortie), but change it so that castle defenders breaks the siege if both sides run out of morale. Reason: Castle defenders have a safe base of operations they can hide in, even if they have 0 morale. Besiegers do not, and thus are very likely to run away when they reach 0 morale. With this change 4 "free" militia will not be enough to make the castle superfluous.
Suggestion C: Change the tables for the sortie vs besiegers. Reason: There is no reason the castle defenders should wait with the sortie until the besiegers have set up defenses.
Suggestion D: Give Castle defenders a flat morale bonus. Reason: Back against the wall, but even if you take (heavy) losses, you have a safe haven to return to.
Suggestion E: Make subsequent castle upgrades cheaper. Perhaps base 12GB. Reason: Upgrades are cheaper than building new, as most support structures can be reused. Fixes the issue that Caerleon pointed out, that there is no incentive to upgrade castles. Higher lvl castles means more units have to be invested to be sure to neutralize castle, requiring a more tactical choice of how many units to use, enough units needed that it is no longer a "free" counter.
Suggestion F: Investing units to neutralize castle only possible after first driving away defenders in province (winning field combat) - Same rules as sieging, but now the traits are gone for anyone trying to lift the siege by attacking into the province. Units sieging cant be used for that combat.
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