|
Post by Caerleon (Tristan) on Nov 3, 2016 19:51:08 GMT
As a naval power, I'd like to point out that the rules mention provinces as counting as adjacent if they share a sea zone (i.e. Dumonia, Wessex, Nemeth, Tir Mor and Helna are all considered adjacent to each other).
That allows for temples to, in effect, cross 1 sea zone (without actually crossing it), because any temple in Helna is adjacent to temples in Dumonia, Wessex, Nemeth and Tir Mor.
I can dig for the rule if you'd like? (pg. 53)
Pg 53 refers gaining information (i.e. rumours) and what counts as adjacent for that purpose. Pg 215 is more specific about sea zones and is explicit that a coastal sea area is considered to be part of a province adjacent to it for the purposes of casting realm spells and not determining adjacency.
|
|
|
Post by X-Tir Moreth(Alexander) on Nov 3, 2016 21:31:29 GMT
So, to cast for example "Protection from Realm Magic" on 5 different provinces, do you need 4 different Ley Lines?
Or, if the provinces are adjacent and you can cast them in each province, it is assumed you can do a quick shuffle across the borders and cast it?
|
|
|
Post by Caerleon (Tristan) on Nov 3, 2016 22:36:05 GMT
So, to cast for example "Protection from Realm Magic" on 5 different provinces, do you need 4 different Ley Lines? "Protection from Realm Magic" has a range of long. This means that it can target provinces that are connected by ley line to the casting province. 4 different ley lines is one to do this, other ways could include 1 ley line with hook-ups. Or, if the provinces are adjacent and you can cast them in each province, it is assumed you can do a quick shuffle across the borders and cast it? No.
|
|
|
Post by X-Tir Moreth(Alexander) on Nov 3, 2016 23:00:49 GMT
I think the text is a bit ambiguous, as the text first states that Ley Lines are needed, and then mentions that you need high enough source/temple levels in all target provinces even if casting on multiple provinces. The latter mention is completely unnecessary if ley lines are needed to all the target provinces, then their own source levels are irrelevant.
The thing that makes me doubt that interpretation is that having played with Bjørn, he very much went with the "contiguous targets don't need seperate ley lines" interpretation, which I honestly think is more reasonable. It is my interpretation that some spells are supposed to be easily cast over large areas - such as protection from realm magic. That's how the guy who wrote the rules communicated them to me when I was spamming mind control spells on my domain every turn and specifically asked him about it. It's hard to know whether that was him misremembering a rule, him doing as he originally intended and so on.
Further, the text explicitly says: For spells that target multiple provinces (or holdings/assets in multiple provinces) the caster is assumed to travel to each province. If the caster is somehow prevented from traveling to a certain province, the spell fails with regard to that province.
At any rate, the text is ambivalent on this as many other areas, so that may be editing artifacts or whatever. It is entirely possible that the second paragraph on page 218 was supposed to be deleted... or the first. In the end it's kind of irrelevant - it's more important how Linde and we want to run it. Though I suppose it is possible to send Bjørn a mail and ask him, but with all the different artifacts throughout the text... that kinda never ends. Though I suppose he might be pleased if someone started cleaning up some areas of the guide.
|
|
|
Post by Caerleon (Tristan) on Nov 3, 2016 23:22:21 GMT
I think the text is a bit ambiguous, as the text first states that Ley Lines are needed, and then mentions that you need high enough source/temple levels in all target provinces even if casting on multiple provinces. The latter mention is completely unnecessary if ley lines are needed to all the target provinces, then their own source levels are irrelevant. I don't think the text is as ambiguous as you think. It doesn't state that they are needed, just that that is the range at which you can cast the spell. Further, the text explicitly says: For spells that target multiple provinces (or holdings/assets in multiple provinces) the caster is assumed to travel to each province. If the caster is somehow prevented from traveling to a certain province, the spell fails with regard to that province. It says this under the description for Medium range, not Long range. But having reread it I don't see why you couldn't cast a long range spell at medium range. Although I would (if I was the GM) require a Travel action if you where leaving your home domain in this way or covering 3+ provinces.
|
|
|
Post by X-Tir Moreth(Alexander) on Nov 4, 2016 12:19:16 GMT
Exactly, it mentions the "target province". If you read with the assumption that you can target a single province and the effect radiates out, then the second paragraph makes perfect sense. If you don't have that assumption, the second paragraph is completely superfluous, as if you're targeting it through a ley line you would presumerably be living up to the requirement anyway. Sadly I haven't been able to dig up the discussion with Bjørn, either on the forums or through mail, but I do have a memory of asking specifically about this in connection to the Demagogue spell. Then again, it might just be my brain providing evidence for the interpretation that makes the most intuitive sense for me, it would be ~5-6 years ago I had this conversation. Anyway, this is getting excessively nitpicky on my end. I prefer one interpretation, but I am fine with whichever interpretation Linde prefers to go with. There are better things to do than nitpick 7-year old documents full of editing artifacts
|
|
|
Post by Linde (x-GM) on Nov 6, 2016 0:27:39 GMT
I can see points for both interpretations.
However, in Albion you will need to have access to the source you use to power the spell and ley lines that connect (or hookup or the likes) in each affected province when casting spells that target multiple provinces.
For instance: If your wish to use realm scrying on multiple provinces, then you need a ley line network that cover each of the affected provinces. If you wish to cast bless the holy land, then the provinces you target must all be part of the same temple network.
|
|
|
Post by X-Tir Moreth(Alexander) on Nov 6, 2016 2:28:35 GMT
Including if you are targeting adjacent provinces and could conceivably move between them? Caerleon's suggestion of anything above 2 requiring a travel action seems reasonable. Assuming you meet the casting requirement in those provinces of course.
What about druids? I kinda liked their ludicrously overpowered ability to combine sources and temples - are we keeping that?
|
|
|
Post by Linde (x-GM) on Nov 6, 2016 3:14:33 GMT
1) Including if you are targeting adjacent provinces and could conceivably move between them? Caerleon's suggestion of anything above 2 requiring a travel action seems reasonable. Assuming you meet the casting requirement in those provinces of course. 2) What about druids? I kinda liked their ludicrously overpowered ability to combine sources and temples - are we keeping that? 1) You will need to have access to the source you use to power the spell and ley lines that connect (or hookup or the likes) in each affected province when casting spells that target multiple provinces. The difference between Medium and long range spells is that you also need to physically be in the province when casting medium range spells. The difference between Medium and close range is that you also need to be able to see the target The difference between close and touch is that you need to touch the target instead of seeing it. and so on. Seeing as I allow people to travel across half of Albion without a travel action it seems rather harsh to require a travel action for casting a spell in 3 provinces. Travel actions will only be applied as prerequisite if I find the area too big(5+ is always too big, but fewer provinces could also be too big an area depending on terrain and accessibility), or if it is hostile territory(2 provinces of hostile territory or a single province behind enemy lines would need a travel action to justify it. 2) No, they will get to cast any kind of magic, but must adhere to the normal rules of each type of magic. Still powerful, but not so ludicrously overpowered that druids should rule the world as the one true masters of everything.
|
|
|
Post by X-Tir Moreth(Alexander) on Nov 6, 2016 3:22:43 GMT
So to clarify, NSE needs a lvl 5 source to cast Gold Rush? Is this effective immediately or from next turn? Hear that sound? That is the sound of Mercia, Nemeth, Umbria and Tir Moreth crying out in agony over a reasonable nerf
|
|
|
Post by Linde (x-GM) on Nov 6, 2016 3:42:32 GMT
Correct.
|
|
|
Post by ET (Kerberos) on Nov 6, 2016 5:29:00 GMT
So to clarify, NSE needs a lvl 5 source to cast Gold Rush? Is this effective immediately or from next turn? Hear that sound? That is the sound of Mercia, Nemeth, Umbria and Tir Moreth crying out in agony over a reasonable nerf Umbria regrets the NSE nerf, but considers that any nerf that affect the ToB can't be all bad.
|
|
|
Post by X-Tir Moreth(Alexander) on Nov 6, 2016 14:16:40 GMT
A suggestion could be that for the purpose of casting Primordial spells ONLY they can still add their holding levels together. The primordial spell list doesn't have any economic spells and so on, so that would keep the awesome power of the druids without making all the friends economically OP.
|
|
|
Post by Godfred Thraw BayardsKing(GT) on Nov 6, 2016 17:49:26 GMT
or we can forbid magi and no problemo
|
|
|
Post by X-Tir Moreth(Alexander) on Nov 6, 2016 22:24:39 GMT
Did you not just teleport out of trap I made with completely mundane espionage? I smell hypocrisy.
|
|