Post by Linde (x-GM) on Jun 10, 2017 15:46:56 GMT
There seems to be some confusion as to how divestiture/investiture works.
To clarify I have created this Q&A:
Q:Where do the ceremony take place?
A:Usually in the court province of the domain that initiate the ceremony, but it can in some cases be taken in the province where the holdings are instead.
Q: Who can spend influence on the ceremony?
A: Domains with presence where the ceremony is conducted can spend influence against. Domains with with presence in the target province can spend influence in support or opposition.
Q: Why would you ever take the ritual in the target province?
A: Mainly to keep people who have holdings in your court province from influencing the outcome, but in some cases the choice of ritual site may affect the DDC. Furthermore the ritual itself establish presence.
Q: So the location of the Ceremony affect your ability to spend influence?
A: Yes. The ability to spend influence is hinged on presence. So if you have presence, either by having a holding in the target province, or by having control of the target holding/province(by military or otherwise), then the ritual can be conducted anywhere without affecting your ability to spend influence in support. If you have neither control nor a holding in the target province, then you would need to hold the ritual in the target province to establish presence, but doing such is just inviting enemy units to capture your regent... So in that case you might want to wait for a more opportune time before conducting the ritual.
Q: Can you come with an example when location would affect the DDC?
A: If you wish to recognize an uncontrolled holding at the same time as another regent tries to recognize the same holding, then the regent holding the ritual farthest from the actual holding will get DDC penalties.
Q: So the only real differences when conducting the ceremony at your own court rather than at the target province are that casters there can cast investiture in support of the ceremony and domains with holdings at my court province can spend influence against the action?
A: Yes
Q: If my temple cast Investiture at my court province to support my ceremony, then you would need a magical presence at my court province to counter the spell, right?
A: No. As the Spell targets the ceremony, and as the ceremony - in effect - also covers the target province(s) then any spell caster with dispel or investiture prepared and a presence in any of the affected provinces may attempt to counter the investiture spell.
Q: Can I conduct the ceremony in the court of my ally instead of my court or the target province?
A: Depending on the situation this may be allowed. But if it is allowed you should expect a higher DDC, bloodline loss due to loss of prestige and possible events.... That is unless the ally you refer to is your liege, in that case you should just expect a higher DDC.
Q: So if me and my 3 allies send military into a province and take joint control of it, we will all be able to spend influence in support or opposition of each others investiture ceremonies to gain control of those holdings, regardless of where those ceremonies are held.
A: Yes
Q: I don't like that you can conduct the ritual at your court province instead of the target province. In my opinion it makes the rituals too easy, especially since a coalition army can spend influence in support of each other. Will there be another ruling?
A: No. There are three reasons for this. 1. I disagree that ceremonies are too easy. In this game people who have conducted investiture has either spent much RP&GB in influence attempting to succeed or have had agreements in place to avoid opposition. 2. It would partially void several structures that grant bonus to investiture. 3. Getting a coalition to agree on holding division to a point where they sink influence into each others recognition attempts seem highly unlikely. Divestiture might be easier, but the domains tend to have different goals and thus far they have protected their own interests by not supporting each others divestiture/recognition ceremonies.
Further questions are welcome.
To clarify I have created this Q&A:
Q:Where do the ceremony take place?
A:Usually in the court province of the domain that initiate the ceremony, but it can in some cases be taken in the province where the holdings are instead.
Q: Who can spend influence on the ceremony?
A: Domains with presence where the ceremony is conducted can spend influence against. Domains with with presence in the target province can spend influence in support or opposition.
Q: Why would you ever take the ritual in the target province?
A: Mainly to keep people who have holdings in your court province from influencing the outcome, but in some cases the choice of ritual site may affect the DDC. Furthermore the ritual itself establish presence.
Q: So the location of the Ceremony affect your ability to spend influence?
A: Yes. The ability to spend influence is hinged on presence. So if you have presence, either by having a holding in the target province, or by having control of the target holding/province(by military or otherwise), then the ritual can be conducted anywhere without affecting your ability to spend influence in support. If you have neither control nor a holding in the target province, then you would need to hold the ritual in the target province to establish presence, but doing such is just inviting enemy units to capture your regent... So in that case you might want to wait for a more opportune time before conducting the ritual.
Q: Can you come with an example when location would affect the DDC?
A: If you wish to recognize an uncontrolled holding at the same time as another regent tries to recognize the same holding, then the regent holding the ritual farthest from the actual holding will get DDC penalties.
Q: So the only real differences when conducting the ceremony at your own court rather than at the target province are that casters there can cast investiture in support of the ceremony and domains with holdings at my court province can spend influence against the action?
A: Yes
Q: If my temple cast Investiture at my court province to support my ceremony, then you would need a magical presence at my court province to counter the spell, right?
A: No. As the Spell targets the ceremony, and as the ceremony - in effect - also covers the target province(s) then any spell caster with dispel or investiture prepared and a presence in any of the affected provinces may attempt to counter the investiture spell.
Q: Can I conduct the ceremony in the court of my ally instead of my court or the target province?
A: Depending on the situation this may be allowed. But if it is allowed you should expect a higher DDC, bloodline loss due to loss of prestige and possible events.... That is unless the ally you refer to is your liege, in that case you should just expect a higher DDC.
Q: So if me and my 3 allies send military into a province and take joint control of it, we will all be able to spend influence in support or opposition of each others investiture ceremonies to gain control of those holdings, regardless of where those ceremonies are held.
A: Yes
Q: I don't like that you can conduct the ritual at your court province instead of the target province. In my opinion it makes the rituals too easy, especially since a coalition army can spend influence in support of each other. Will there be another ruling?
A: No. There are three reasons for this. 1. I disagree that ceremonies are too easy. In this game people who have conducted investiture has either spent much RP&GB in influence attempting to succeed or have had agreements in place to avoid opposition. 2. It would partially void several structures that grant bonus to investiture. 3. Getting a coalition to agree on holding division to a point where they sink influence into each others recognition attempts seem highly unlikely. Divestiture might be easier, but the domains tend to have different goals and thus far they have protected their own interests by not supporting each others divestiture/recognition ceremonies.
Further questions are welcome.