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Post by Maelgwyn ap Cadwgan (TOG) on May 22, 2018 16:29:43 GMT
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Post by King Oden Sleibhin of Dumonia on May 23, 2018 5:15:21 GMT
www.boardgaming.info/EIA-archive/downloads.phpThis should also have the EIA rules, but note for our Albion game there have been added a lot of house rules, may i ask if you are interested in EIA or what the odds for a battle between Alined and Camelot would be? Both.
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Post by Mercia(andreas) on May 23, 2018 9:25:42 GMT
In EIA its the Napoleonic wars where armies are filled with militias, infantry, cavalry, guards or maybe some artillery. Most of these units have different morale.
Each nation have a set amount of armies with their specific template of forces, available that they may fill as their manpower and money dictates. The aim of EIA is to display greatness, typically by being at the forefront of the political power track, where political power is gained from winning wars, winning battles and establishing alliances or spending resources. And political power is lost when losing wars, battles breaking alliances declaring wars or extra taxes.
The battles are fought with each side lining up their total troop count against one another and calculating there average morale. Then each sides choose a secret tactic, and the dice are cast to determined the outcome of battle. The dicerolls are modified by what commander can best wield the armies at his command, as well as a bonus should one side have twice the cavalry of the other side, terrain can also affect to dice roll.
Each tactic vs tactic and dicerolls show how devatating the battle is, so exsample an assualt versus a counter attack have both sides roll on the damage table 3-1, where a side rolling a modified 5 would do damage to the equal 10% of the troops they have at their side and damage the enemy side with 1.1 points of morale damage. The other side of course also roll their their attack at the same time for their counter attack.
The next phase of the assualt versus counter attack continue to stage 2 and use the table 4-2, which is even more lethal and demoralizing.
Should a side flee the battle, through loss of morale the winning can send his cavalry to reap a heavy toll on the fleeing forces.
Should neither side flee the field the battle by the end of stage 3, either side can choose to safely withdrawn or start another day of fighting, on the second day, the morale is recovered but reduced by 0.5 morale. This Turned out a bit rambling.
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Post by Mercia(andreas) on May 23, 2018 11:07:52 GMT
For a battle of Alined versus Camelot, i believe Camelot is very favoured, but i do not know a lot about the troops available. So hear goes a small test example.
Lets say Alined and Dumonia have at their disposal have. 1 Outriders 1 Heavy Infantry 1 Engineer 1 Pikeman 1 Archers 5 Militia 4 Light Infantry 8 Skirmishers
This is 22 Banners, they have combined HP equal to 350=1*15[Outrider hp]+1*25[Heavy Infantry hp]+1*15[Engineer]+1*20[Pikeman]+1*20[Archers]+5*15[Militias hp]+4*15[Light Infantry hp]+8*15[Skirmisher hp] With a average morale of 2,454 rounded up to 2.5 average morale.
They have 1 Cavalry trait unit, 1 Heavy trait unit, 1 Engineer Trait unit, 1 Defensive trait unit 9 Bow trait units.
Facing them Camelot sends the NT legion.
Containing something like: 5 Knights 4 Elven Archers 4 Elven Infantry 1 Engineers 2 Catapults
They have 16 banners, they have combined HP equal to 415=5*15[knights hp]+4*20[Elven Infantry hp]+1*15[Engineer]+4*20[Elven Archers]+2*20[Catapult hp] With a average morale of 3,28 rounded up to 3.3 average morale.
So lets say this legion Assualt the Alined force who excecute a cordon defense expecting an outflanking manuever. This would have NT roll on table 4-1, then 4-3 and then 4-1 again. While the defender roll on table 2-1, then 2-1 and then 3-1 again.
NT have more than twice the cavalry opposing them and gain +1dice roll modifier.
But the defenders have more than twice the bow units opposing them reducing NT's dice roll modifier by -1.
NT have more than twice the artillery opposing them and gain +1 damage table modifier, upgrading their tables to table 5-1, then 5-3 and then 5-1 again.
But the defenders have more than twice the heavy units opposing them and gain +1 morale table modifier, upgrading their tables to table table 2-2, then 2-2 and then 3-2 again.
Lets presume the while the defenders have a better commander but also have to handle more banners, leading to no decisive advantage of command to either side.
Lets roll the dice and simulate this as a standard battle:
NT starts by rolling 2 on table 5-1, this cause 2 damage per 5 hp of attackers and 0.6 damage to average morale. And the defenders roll 5 on table 2-2, this cause 2 damage per 5 hp of attackers and 1.4 damage to average morale.
The results are applied: The attacker cause 170 damage to the defenders killing all the militia and outriders and light infantry and a unit of skirmishers and wounding another, reducing their fighting hp from 350 to 180 and reduce their morale of the defenders from 2.5 to 1.9 The defenders cause 140 damage to the attacks killing their engineers their elven infantry and 2 and a bit of banners of elven archers and reduce the hp of the attackers from 415 to 275 and reduce there morale of the attacks from 3.3 to 1.9
Stage 2 rolls. NT starts by rolling 2 on table 5-3, this cause 2 damage per 5 hp of remaining attackers and 1.4 damage to average morale. And the defenders roll 2 on table 2-2, this cause 1 damage per 5 hp of remaining attackers and 0.4 damage to average morale.
The results are applied: The attacker cause 110 damage to the defenders killing all but the heavy infantry and pikemen but wounding the archers reducing their fighting hp from 180 to 70 and reduce their morale of the defenders from 1.9 to 0.5 The defenders cause 36 damage to the attacks killing the ramaining elven archers and damaging the catapult and reduce the hp of the attackers from 275 to 239 and reduce there morale of the attacks from 1.9 to 1.5
Stage 3 rolls. NT starts by rolling 5 on table 5-1, this cause 3 damage per 5 hp of remaining attackers and 1.8 damage to average morale. And the defenders roll 4 on table 3-2, this cause 2 damage per 5 hp of remaining attackers and 1.4 damage to average morale.
The results are applied: The attacker cause 141 damage to the defenders killing all reducing their fighting hp from 70 to 0 and reduce their morale of the defenders from 0.5 to -1,3 causing the remaining forces to flee The defenders cause 36 damage to the attacks killing the catapults almost completely and reduce the hp of the attackers from 239 to 203 and reduce there morale of the attacks from 1.5 to 0.1 the NT force stays on the field and can execute a cavalry pursuit of fleeing enemies
This is but a single simulation of what standard battle could bring, here NT picked a good tactic against his opponent while initially not favored by the dice rolls.
Had the Defenders been able to hide their troops and launch an ambush this would be different or had they built field fortifications. But if Camelot send his own troops or called on the forces of Nemeth as well, there would be very little hope for the defenders.
I did notice that i in this example forgot to add a +1 Dice roll hill terrain modifier for the defenders, but it would not change what and who got killed, but it would leave the attackers to rattled for a follow up pursuit, and if there had there been surviving defenders then the attackers would have withdrawn back out of the province, properly to prepare a final attack.
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Post by Mercia(andreas) on May 24, 2018 9:00:34 GMT
As far as i know dice roll modifiers are capped to be no more than +1/-1, (i presume this is the final result from terrain/unit advantages/command/utility magic). Is battle tables also limited to a shift of +1/-1.
In short could a tactic vs tactic table result of a 3-3 be manipulated down to a 2-1 due to fighting an uninvested castle versus a force with engineer advantage.
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Post by SouthWestern Traders on May 29, 2018 20:59:07 GMT
For the purposes of transporting units, the following two rules are currently in effect:
Ship capacity: 2GB worth of Units measured in upkeep [http://birthrightalbion.freeforums.net/post/57/thread]
Supply of units via ship = cargo capacity of ship * 2 / # of war moves from supply point [http://birthrightalbion.freeforums.net/post/15684/thread]
---
Example:
I have 1 ship and I load 4 militia onboard (2GB upkeep total). I sail 3WMs and successfully deploy them in hostile territory and they manage to survive. Supply is checked at end of turn:
Are they considered to be at full supply because they correctly transported?
Are they considered to be at half supply because the ships could at most bring 4GB/3 supplies?
Are they considered to be at no supply because the ships couldn't bring anything on account of being full of militia?
(I'm guessing/hoping for the second option, as presumably ships that are transporting units would also bring their necessary supplies along. I don't think the first option makes sense).
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Post by Turn Processing Assistant on May 29, 2018 22:29:55 GMT
For the purposes of transporting units, the following two rules are currently in effect: Ship capacity: 2GB worth of Units measured in upkeep [http://birthrightalbion.freeforums.net/post/57/thread] Supply of units via ship = cargo capacity of ship * 2 / # of war moves from supply point [http://birthrightalbion.freeforums.net/post/15684/thread] --- Example: I have 1 ship and I load 4 militia onboard (2GB upkeep total). I sail 3WMs and successfully deploy them in hostile territory and they manage to survive. Supply is checked at end of turn: Are they considered to be at full supply because they correctly transported? Are they considered to be at half supply because the ships could at most bring 4GB/3 supplies? Are they considered to be at no supply because the ships couldn't bring anything on account of being full of militia? (I'm guessing/hoping for the second option, as presumably ships that are transporting units would also bring their necessary supplies along. I don't think the first option makes sense). Unused cargo capacity from shipping troops can be used to ship supplies.
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Post by Linde (x-GM) on Jun 24, 2018 11:46:28 GMT
Updated top link to v5
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Post by Linde (x-GM) on Jul 22, 2018 21:29:02 GMT
Feedback in a private war thread have moved me to make a few changes to Battles & Units.
The following changes to the rules will be implemented from turn 25 onward: 1) Damage dealt is halved for all units. 2)Undead trait changed from: "Undead units do up to 300% extra damage" to: "Increase Damage & Morale table by 1 if you have undead superiority" 3) Base HP of Undead units are increased to 30 & 45 from 20 & 30 (+50%HP) 4) Units no longer have their damage doubled upon reaching 10XP and becoming Elite. 5) HP of a unit scale with XP: 0XP: Base HP *0.6 1XP: Base HP *0.8 3XP: Base HP *1.0 6XP: Base HP *1.2 10XP: Base HP *1.4 15XP: Base HP *1.6 21XP: Base HP *2.0 This scaling also affect damage dealt by the unit, so a veteran unit will deal twice as much damage as a raw unit of the same type. The damage halved in 1) is the damage for a skilled unit (3XP) A raw unit therefore deal 30% damage from turn 25 compared to turn 24 (30%=50%*60%)
Base HP of a unit is shown in the "HP" column of the "Units" tab in the battle calculator, and is unchanged for all but undead units.
6) It is clarified that a "Hit" amount to HP equal to one fifth of the Base HP of a unit. Low XP units therefore have less "Hits" than high XP units. "Hits" are used for the purpose of some spells and environmental effects that deal damage to units, either lethal or subdual.
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End result should hopefully be: Undeads are nasty, but less "glass cannons" than they are right now.
Training just a few seasons to get a few extra XP should have greater impact on battles. More units should survive battling. (Even when fighting nasty undeads) Less unique effects (streamlining of undeads), hopefully making battles more transparent.
If you feel these changes are way off base for how you like battles to be conducted, or feel that the changes impose unjust nerfs to your domain because of some other special rule that apply only to you, you should either post your grievance here or send a message to me (cc TPA for reference) and we resolve the issues.
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Post by King Oden Sleibhin of Dumonia on Jul 22, 2018 23:48:02 GMT
Cool, thanks Linde.
Minor edits to the sheets: Engeneer s/b Engineer Persuit s/b Pursuit
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Post by ET (Kerberos) on Jul 23, 2018 3:10:09 GMT
Feedback in a private war thread have moved me to make a few changes to Battles & Units.
The following changes to the rules will be implemented from turn 25 onward: 1) Damage dealt is halved for all units. 2)Undead trait changed from: "Undead units do up to 300% extra damage" to: "Increase Damage & Morale table by 1 if you have undead superiority" 3) Base HP of Undead units are increased to 30 & 45 from 20 & 30 (+50%HP) 4) Units no longer have their damage doubled upon reaching 10XP and becoming Elite. 5) HP of a unit scale with XP: 0XP: Base HP *0.6 1XP: Base HP *0.8 3XP: Base HP *1.0 6XP: Base HP *1.2 10XP: Base HP *1.4 15XP: Base HP *1.6 21XP: Base HP *2.0 This scaling also affect damage dealt by the unit, so a veteran unit will deal twice as much damage as a raw unit of the same type. The damage halved in 1) is the damage for a skilled unit (3XP) A raw unit therefore deal 30% damage from turn 25 compared to turn 24 (30%=50%*60%)
Base HP of a unit is shown in the "HP" column of the "Units" tab in the battle calculator, and is unchanged for all but undead units.
6) It is clarified that a "Hit" amount to HP equal to one fifth of the Base HP of a unit. Low XP units therefore have less "Hits" than high XP units. "Hits" are used for the purpose of some spells and environmental effects that deal damage to units, either lethal or subdual.
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For reference I've included a work in progress battle calculator that hopefully reflect all the changes:
End result should hopefully be: Undeads are nasty, but less "glass cannons" than they are right now.
Training just a few seasons to get a few extra XP should have greater impact on battles. More units should survive battling. (Even when fighting nasty undeads) Less unique effects (streamlining of undeads), hopefully making battles more transparent.
If you feel these changes are way off base for how you like battles to be conducted, or feel that the changes impose unjust nerfs to your domain because of some other special rule that apply only to you, you should either post your grievance here or send a message to me (cc TPA for reference) and we resolve the issues.
I'll probably do some more in deth calculations later, but initial thoughs are good changes. One change more change I think might be called for is the increase in upkeep at Elite and legendary status. With these changes a unit getting to elite status is arguably bad because a 0,2 increase in damage might be worht less than a 0,5 increase in upkeep (also gets one movement, which may matter, but assually doesn't). In comparrison the earlier increases in HP are free. As a quick suggestion upkeep could simply increase by 0,1 or 0,2 per veterancy level(starting either at raw or skileld or perhaps only applying after skilled). 0,1 makes more XP always good, 0,2 would mean that it might be cost inefficient for militia and similar cheap units and more of an even trade for 1/gb upkeep units.
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Post by ET (Kerberos) on Jul 23, 2018 4:04:32 GMT
Another possibility cocnerning upkeep is to move the +0,5 GB increase up to crack, where you get an extra trait whcih is a more substantial performance increase than movement. I like my previous suggestions better, but this would be simpler.
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Post by Mercia(andreas) on Jul 23, 2018 6:58:18 GMT
Umbria think of the paperwork of so many payment brackets.
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Post by ET (Kerberos) on Jul 23, 2018 8:47:31 GMT
Umbria think of the paperwork of so many payment brackets. Your acounting-FU is weak! Anyways there is defitly an issue with the elite upkeep increase. When the damage doubled it was worth it, now imo it isn't. Moving the prize increase to crack is the simpler fix. Or simply not having prize increases at all. That's simplest of all. There 's still an indirect cost of holding the exercises and fighting the battles but the xp would then be pure cake.
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Post by X-Nemeth on Jul 23, 2018 10:08:34 GMT
You could argue that the cost of higher lvl units is paid as a pseudo muster/up front cost when training as you can t use them during training.
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